I'm loathe to disagree, however I think product success only truly measures the success of the product, not the product _manager_ directly.
To take a case in point from the B2B world, even if a product manager does absolutely everything they can in their power (and with their team) to ensure the product is the right fit for the target market, they can't force a sales team to sell it.
I've seen situations where product managers are stymied because the sales team believes learning a new product to sell it is too much effort over tried and tested ones for which they already have the patter down. Nothing wrong with the product other than it's new to the sales team. Sales quotas (where commission is dependent on selling certain combinations of products and services over others) can also chuck a spanner in the works.
I agree that a successful product is generally a good indirect indication that the product manager is doing their job well (although even then there's blind luck as an occasional false positive), however the reverse is not always the case, simply because B2B PMs in particular are not always in direct control of the route to market.
I also concede that part of a PM's role is to work closely with other teams, including sales, to ensure that the product has the best chance possible in the market. Alas, not all teams are as cooperative as they can be, especially when misaligned incentives pull them in different directions to the product strategy.
From your own experiences, Jason, how do you define success in product managers when they're working with one hand tied behind their back like this?
I agree that it can be hard to succeed in various organisations. I've worked for organisations where I feel like I had both hands tied behind my back! In these situations, I learned a lot about what to try, what not to try, what works and (mainly) what doesn't work. They made me stronger, and probably set me up for future success, but did I "succeed" there? No!
It's like if you're a top football player playing in a terrible team - you can do your very best and succeed in isolated areas (what a goal!), but your team keeps losing all its games and you get relegated anyway. You may well get a transfer to another club and win titles there, but you haven't been successful (yet)
Say I tell you that I have the winning lottery numbers for next week. You decline to join me, but I turn out right. You just cost yourself millions - were you wrong?
The quality of a decision is measure by the process that led to the decision, not by its outcome. You can learn from outcomes (both good and bad) and improve of your decision making process over time (eg was there information you could have gotten, that would have changed your decision?). But sometimes you do everything "right" and still get the wrong outcome.
And Product Management is nothing but a thousand small decisions every day. So paying attention to how you make those decisions (data, insights, biases) is the right measure in the long term. More complex and not as sexy as $$$, but far more accurate.
Hi Jason,
I'm loathe to disagree, however I think product success only truly measures the success of the product, not the product _manager_ directly.
To take a case in point from the B2B world, even if a product manager does absolutely everything they can in their power (and with their team) to ensure the product is the right fit for the target market, they can't force a sales team to sell it.
I've seen situations where product managers are stymied because the sales team believes learning a new product to sell it is too much effort over tried and tested ones for which they already have the patter down. Nothing wrong with the product other than it's new to the sales team. Sales quotas (where commission is dependent on selling certain combinations of products and services over others) can also chuck a spanner in the works.
I agree that a successful product is generally a good indirect indication that the product manager is doing their job well (although even then there's blind luck as an occasional false positive), however the reverse is not always the case, simply because B2B PMs in particular are not always in direct control of the route to market.
I also concede that part of a PM's role is to work closely with other teams, including sales, to ensure that the product has the best chance possible in the market. Alas, not all teams are as cooperative as they can be, especially when misaligned incentives pull them in different directions to the product strategy.
From your own experiences, Jason, how do you define success in product managers when they're working with one hand tied behind their back like this?
Cheers,
Jock
I agree that it can be hard to succeed in various organisations. I've worked for organisations where I feel like I had both hands tied behind my back! In these situations, I learned a lot about what to try, what not to try, what works and (mainly) what doesn't work. They made me stronger, and probably set me up for future success, but did I "succeed" there? No!
It's like if you're a top football player playing in a terrible team - you can do your very best and succeed in isolated areas (what a goal!), but your team keeps losing all its games and you get relegated anyway. You may well get a transfer to another club and win titles there, but you haven't been successful (yet)
Say I tell you that I have the winning lottery numbers for next week. You decline to join me, but I turn out right. You just cost yourself millions - were you wrong?
The quality of a decision is measure by the process that led to the decision, not by its outcome. You can learn from outcomes (both good and bad) and improve of your decision making process over time (eg was there information you could have gotten, that would have changed your decision?). But sometimes you do everything "right" and still get the wrong outcome.
And Product Management is nothing but a thousand small decisions every day. So paying attention to how you make those decisions (data, insights, biases) is the right measure in the long term. More complex and not as sexy as $$$, but far more accurate.
I won't paste the same replies in here, but follow this thread on LinkedIn!
https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7251891711788924928/